Why Keep Working Your Job Post FI with Mrs Maze

Why does someone who reached financial independence continue to work?  How does it feel when your spouse leaves his job with no immediate plan to get another and tells you that neither of you actually have to work any more?  I have been trying for months to get this exclusive guest to agree to an interview. Today I talk with Mrs Maze about our story raw and unfiltered 🙂

Phase 1, A New Set Of Job Criteria

Two years prior to me understanding the 4% rule, claiming financial independence (FI), and coming to the realization that my wife and I were in a work optional situation, Mrs Maze started a new job. She did so with a set of intentional criteria. We didn’t yet think in terms of FI but we were both aware that we had built up more savings than our peers and that afforded us some level of F-you money. Tell us about how you set about looking for that next job Mrs Maze.

“When I left my last job, I started to think more about what really was important to me in a job.  Early in my career it was always money and working toward the next career step.  Later in my career, when I had already earned enough money that money was no longer the primary driver, I started thinking about really what were the primary drivers of me working all day long?  There is a huge tradeoff that you are making in your life to spend the majority of your hours working for a company.  Taking time away from your family, taking time away from hobbies and activities.  Maybe even your fitness goals.  So If I was going to spend 8-10 hours away from my family and my kids I wanted to ensure that I was doing something I felt was worth it.  So I started to create the list.  I ranked the list and prioritized the list.”

This was her list then (4 years ago).

#1 Work with some other female leadership.

 “I had been working in technology for 15 years.  I mainly worked with men, which was fine, but I started to have this feeling that it would be nice to work with some female leaders that looked a little bit more like me for a change. 

#2 Work / Life balance.  

Something closer to a 40 hour per week job rather than 60 or 80.  Flexibility and the ability to work remote or choose when to put in some of those hours.

#3 Working for the greater good of the broader community.  

“I have been writing software platforms for a long time.  Many weren’t the worst thing for society but they didn’t necessarily enable benefit for most people.  Some focused on executive efficiency or company workflow, for example.  Doing something more meaningful for people that maybe needed it more appealed to me as a mission.  

#4 Management Role

Like me, Mrs Maze had spent a career in technology and startups, started as an individual contributor, and then grew into a management role.  She wanted to have a role and a title where she could coach others and had a seat at the leadership table.  However, she was willing to sacrifice title for the things higher on this list.

#5 Pay

Mrs LOTM explains that decent pay is kind of implied being in tech.  However at this point it was much lower on her list.  In fact, she took a substantial pay cut when she started at her new job that best met these criteria.  “I was open to a pay cut or title cut and willing to work for equity because I didn’t need the cash now.”

Why were you doing things differently at this point in your career?

“We were in a financial position where we had built up enough savings to have a reserve.  I wanted to be more honest and real with myself about what type of work would lead to happier more content days.  My thought was that if the work itself had more value and meaning to me, then I would come home and feel better about my work day in general even if I had a bad day at work.”

“If I am going to spend all this time away from my kids, do I feel like what I am putting that time into is valuable.  Maybe not a replacement for spending time with my kids but valuable enough to me that I feel ok about it overall together with pay, mission, people and flexibility.”

She points out that her list changed over time and that she reviews it at least once a year to make sure that the work was still fulfilling.

Did you think of us as financially independent back in 2016?  

“Not really.  Even if we really ran the numbers that might have been the case.”  As she says this, I recount that for me it did not become real until around 2018 even if we may have been close numbers wise a couple years prior.

What were Your Primary Motivations at this point back in 2016?

Mrs Maze describes being very mission driven at this point.  Without going into details, part of her company mission is to help create a level playing field.  She believes in it.  She recalls discussions with her then 28 year old sister about how her friends can’t get out of debt.  “I feel passionate about the work that we are doing.”  

When Mrs Maze took this job, there were 4 other people at her company and she had 1 direct report.  However, they started to grow quickly.

Mrs Maze recalls that she also just really “wanted to see one of these go.”  Both of us had been in startups for awhile and it means working way more hours with way more pressure than a corporate gig.  To actually see one of them take off would be really gratifying.

This would also give her an opportunity to work on being a better people manager and leader.

Phase 2, My Husband Claims We Are Financially Independent

In 2018, 2 years after Mrs Maze started her job, Mr Maze went through the transition chronicled on this glorious website and left his job.  

What was your reaction to this Mrs Maze? 

“I wasn’t surprised or caught off guard.  You had been talking about these ideas recently.  The concept of money unlocking choice had been around since we started saving.  We had been calculating our net worth since forever.  The first thing we did as a couple in our early 20s was save up 6 months (emergency fund).  We had always lived on less than 50% of our income.”

However, Mrs Maze adds “It seemed early.  I was worried about achievement.  Why are we stopping here?  Why not make even more money to have even more choice?” 

“I had a very traditional view of success.”  Mrs Maze says.  “It is still something I think about, but It’s been going pretty well despite some of my early fears.”

Did You Feel Financially Independent When I claimed it?

“I don’t know if I think about it that way.  I don’t think I’m like waiting for a number to hit.  So part of it is that.  I’ve never had that as a goal set out saying I’m going to hit this number and then I know.  I think a trigger for me was when you decided to quit full time work.  That was a trigger for me to re-examine why I am working.  Because if my husband is not going to work, quitting the 9-5, then why am I doing this?  You know we are not going to live the same lifestyle any longer.  I am going to get jealous when I see him doing all these things that I would like to do as well.  But it is hard to do when you are choosing to work.  I can’t.  I can’t take 3 months off.  Even 2 weeks off is a feat when you are working a job like this.  So that is when I started to question why am I doing this?  Am I working too hard?”

I explain that I was 60-70% sure that she would leave her job within a year of me leaving mine.  I was already doing it and also things seemed rough at her job.  

My question is what kept you working after the re-evaluation point?  

Also what did you find in that re-evaluation?

“Honestly, what I found is I just kind of like working.  I kind of like going in to a place and solving problems and there are aspects of working I really like.  The community aspect, the people aspect.  Working on things together.”  

“When I think about not working there does feel to me just a base level loss not being able to have that interaction.  It’s also just my personality a little bit.  You know how I am.  I come home, I work on things.  You are always telling me “you can stop working.”  I’ve always had a nature where I like productivity, I like to work, I like to get things done.”  

In 2018, how did your List of Criteria Change from when You Started The Job 2 Years Prior?

At this point two years into the job, the company had grown.  Mrs Maze had 10 direct reports and there were now around 100 people at the company.  There had been quite a bit of growth and Mrs Maze was running lots of projects with a small team.  She wanted less direct reports.

Working with female leadership was now something that she had done over the past 2 years.  Hence the need to experience this went down for her as she focused more on working with a team of partners who shared mutual respect.

Mrs Maze describes a shift toward valuing good partnership and flexibility with hours / time off even more than she had prior.  She described more of a willingness to trade hugely meaningful work for something that simply was somewhat beneficial to society but also included great partnerships and flexibility.  The hours over the past 2 years had remained high.  60 hour weeks were common.

She remembers thinking “never be the first employee at a startup.”  As one of the first employees, she had worked like a founder but without founder status or equity.  As head of the technology team, she was also on call at all hours whenever systems went down.

What were your motivations at this point?

“We were looking at aggressive growth targets over the next 2 years and I was kind of curious and excited about the next phase of the business.  Could I scale it and grow it?  Hiring and building a large team sounded like an interesting challenge.”

As more investment had come into the startup, Mrs Maze also had some motivation to see her equity vest.

“I focused on internal motivation at this point and worked on being able to hold my vision and see my wins even despite critical feedback at times.  As a leader at a startup everything is always failing while you are scaling.”

Phase 3, Vested At a Large Startup

By 2019 her team grew to 50 people and today Mrs LOTM has 100 employees under her (4 levels deep).  She jokes about how 4 years ago it was just 5 people and a dog. Today there are around 500 people total at the company.  Onboarding 30 people across the company per week is not uncommon.

“I still really like what we are doing.  I still really believe in it.  What else am I going to go do that I really believe in it?  It’s really hard to find things that you whole heartedly believe in.  And I have always believed in this idea.  So to see it come to fruition, there is real excitement around that.  Like wow this is actually happening.  We are making this happen.  I was instrumental in building this company.  So That is cool.”

What have you gotten out of the job so far over the past 4 years?  

• A lot of learning and patience.  
• I have built a way to continuously re-evaluate.  
• Experience of being an entrepreneur and building a company up.  
• I’ve learned to deal with many different personality types.
• Leadership skills (especially when times get tough)
• How to keep people motivated and inspired in a tough environment (long hours, bumps in the road).  
• How to communicate well to a larger team as you grow.  
• How everyone fits in and the value each provides as the company grows.  
• How to recognize people and help people with career growth. 
• It is your job to message with integrity that inspires others.  
• Sales
• Negotiating
• Strategy.

“I like the people I work with.  I have interviewed and hired a lot of the people I now work with and I like them.”

Do you think that you feel invested in them?

“I do.  Actually that is something that I am working on is a healthy feeling of how much investment do I owe.  Several times people have said to me, “well if you weren’t here then I wouldn’t be here” kind of thing.  While that’s flattering to hear, it could also put me in a mindset of I can never leave, because everyone here is dependent on me being here.  You can get into an unhealthy place with that and so I have really been working on the right level of making sure this is still my own journey.  Even beyond me this will still carry on and people will find their place.”

What about fears?  Any fears of leaving the job or not working? 

“Feeling a lack of purpose.  Losing my edge, losing the skills that I have built, you know you keep these things up every day at work.  Maybe more so now than my early days just losing this thing that I have built and my position as a leader within it.  You know there are aspects of that that are enjoyable and I wouldn’t have that anymore.”

“I fear, would I find something else that I could work on that I feel excited about, that’s making a difference or will it just be things that are meh?”

“For example if I just volunteered at the library would I be bored?”

“Does it maximize my ability and is it a challenge because when I’m not challenged, I’m bored,  and I don’t want to be bored.  I mean I would like to be bored right now because I feel like I am overworking so boredom to me sounds great but after being bored for a couple months I’d be in hell.  and I could be doing something.  I could be impacting something.  So I think about those things.”

At Odds When Still Working After One Spouse Has Claimed FI

I mention to Mrs Maze that it’s interesting because just to flip that around here’s me on the other side where boredom is a risk.  I think work is important but I am currently dedicating that work toward things outside of full time employment right now.  However, I risk wasting time because I have plenty of free time depending on how hard I push myself.  I risk letting an afternoon go by and not doing anything because I actually wouldn’t have to.  Doing it tomorrow is an option and I easily could catch up.

“Yeah you don’t need to work but I always see you working.” continues Mrs Maze, “I think between weekends and evenings you may put in more time some weeks than I do. It is just less structured time and you have more flexibility about when to do what.”

Speaking of structured time, I snapped this picture over Mrs Maze’s shoulder of her laptop calendar. She typically has more than one meeting at a time back to back all day:

I suppose this calls into question the nature of work. At a core level, the reasons we all work are simple.  Food, clothing, shelter, and a life for our loved ones.  However at some point those reasons move up Maslow’s hierarchy into safety, belonging, esteem, helping others, and self actualization. This is of course part of what we all strive for in financial independence. To have options and to be able to dedicate our time to what we choose to.

I hope you have enjoyed this glimpse into why Mrs Maze works.  Are you in a house where one partner works post FI? How does our situation compare to others? Here’s some other perspectives below and in the comments:

My friend Mr 1500 undertakes weird projects like me while Mrs 1500 works a more traditional job post FI. You can read the 1500 perspective here. As Mr 1500 adds “What all of this boils down to is that to be well adjusted, we all need meaningful work. Life just isn’t the same without it. If you’ve found it in a formal setting, that’s completely awesome. Mrs 1500 definitely has this and so has Mrs. Maze. It’s rare, but great!” “I work really hard too, but just less formal. I’ll finish framing my basement this week and build a deck this weekend. After that, I’ll build a solar pool heater, pizza oven, and zipline. This work is what I need to be happy.”

Thanks for sharing Mr 1500 and I want some pizza from that oven 🙂

We would love to hear your thoughts or feedback in the comments below as well 🙂